"We are all so tiny but we have so much potential"

Interview with Tracey Curtis for the „Graswurzelrevolution”

Graswurzelrevolution: This interview is conducted on behalf of an anarchist newspaper. So, right at the start, I’d like to ask you what the term “anarchy” means to you. In what way would you describe yourself as an anarchist?

Tracey: I don't really like labelling myself as anything, but I suppose, politically, the word 'anarchist' would best describe me.
I would love to live in a world where no one has power over anyone else; where everyone is equal and human and animal rights were respected.

In your song “Miners against Fascism”, you celebrate the solidarity between socialist, communist, and anarchist workers in the Amman valley where you live. So, is there today a noteworthy anarchist movement in that region, and in Wales in general? Did this labour movement influence the development of your political awareness?

I would love to be able to say that there is a noteworthy anarchist movement in the Amman Valley today, but sadly that isn't true. There is so much apathy here today. I'm sure that the men and women who fought so hard for the rights of the workers, and went out to fight the fascists in the Spanish Civil War would be devastated if they could see how things are now. Things aren't so bad throughout the whole of Wales though. There are some great activists and anarchist groups around Cardiff and Newport and Aberystwyth is quite an active area too. I'm sure there are other smaller groups of like-minded people throughout Wales as well.
The labour movement in the Amman Valley didn't affect the development of my political awareness as I have only lived here for the past 11 years. As a child, I was aware of the miners' strike but I was quite young at the time and it mostly went over my head. I always had a strong sense of justice as a child growing up though, and I knew intuitively that certain things were wrong or didn't make sense - for example the death penalty or killing and eating animals - but it wasn't until I was older that these thoughts and feelings were formed into strong political beliefs.

Do you think that there exists a particular anarchist approach to music? For instance, I think that the American avant-garde composer John Cage intended to free music from all rules that used to structure it. Compared to such vanguard approaches, your own music sounds quite conventional in terms of harmony, rhythm, and so forth.

My music may sound conventional but I actually do have an anarchist approach to music. I'm not classically trained and I never follow any particular rules when it comes to writing. I always say what I want to say and try to avoid using lyrical clichés. Musically, some of my songs don't have 'proper' choruses (Letter's To Mr Bush, Rosa's Happy Song, Bristol Museum...) and I never resort to tried and tested chord structures.
It may not sound like it but I always try to push myself and try new things musically. I use harmonies because I love them and I love the way they lift parts of a song. To me, writing music is like painting. I went to art college when I was younger and I had a great teacher. One of the things he told me was 'every mark you make with your paintbrush should be considered'. That is how I approach songwriting. If my songs sound simple and conventional, maybe that's a good thing, after all a great acrobat makes walking in the air look easy!

You started your musical career as a singer to the punk band “Shelley’s Children”. After your “baby break” which you took for a couple of years to raise your four daughters, you  carried on as a folk singer. From punk to folk – that seems to mirror the development of Chumbawamba (who are quite familiar to our readers, and with whom you have also co-operated in a couple of ways). Does this represent a trend in left-wing agit-prop music in Britain? Does it indicate a shift in the target groups? Or does it reflect, in your case, the changes in your familial situation – that is to say, is your role as a mother incompatible with punk?

Firstly, I must say that I actually took a ten year baby break and not 'a couple of years'.
As for the punk-folk thing, I've never written with a particular genre in mind. I just write. When I was in a punk band I still wrote songs my own way - the only way I can write. If these songs were then played by a punk band people would listen to them and think of them as 'punk songs'. My writing has only changed in the way any artist would change over time - a gradual maturing that reflects years of learning about oneself and the world. My songs are called 'folk songs' now, I think, because I play them with an acoustic instrument.
There is no way I would ever say that my role as a mother is incompatible with punk. And anyway, punk is a frame of mind and not necessarily about the clothes you wear or the music you play.
I play acoustic music now partly because I have an acoustic guitar. When I started writing and playing again a few years ago, I only ever intended it to be something to do in my spare time, I had no idea I'd end up playing gigs up and down Britain and in Europe! If I had a punk band in my house then maybe I'd be playing punk music! But I have to say, I like the way things are now; I like only having to consider myself when I write and take gigs. I have the freedom to make my own choices and decisions.

How do your children affect your political, as well as musical, agenda? And, is there any border for you today, between the private and the political sphere?

I don't think having children particularly affected my political agenda. Though I would say having children has made me more acutely aware of the suffering of others. Now if I see images of children, mothers and fathers suffering, I can imagine my own children suffering and can empathise with the parents. Obviously when you have children, you worry about the world they live in, but I always worried about the world and the way human beings are slowly destroying it.
Musically, I suppose having children has given me more to write about but on the other hand, less time to write. Children ask questions all the time and there are things that I used to take for granted, or didn't always take time to consider that I'm suddenly having to think about. I'm learning about the world all over again through the eyes of my children.
I don't think there is any border for me between the private and the political sphere. I write the songs I write because I believe in them and I try to live my life the same way.

Let’s talk about some peculiarities of your lyrics. In your song on education, “I Should Have Kept It Simple”, you illustrate the difficulties, regarding how to teach your children well, with astronomical learning matter. A cosmic perspective also occurs in “If the Moon Could Talk”. Is this only conventional (“well-worn”, as one critic says) poetical imagery, or do you “decenter” the earth in order to de-legitimize power centres, by way of analogy? Or what else does it mean?

When I wrote 'I should've Kept It Simple' and 'If The Moon Could Talk' I was certainly not using conventional poetic imagery!
Using the cosmic perspective is a really effective way of reminding oneself of just how tiny we are in the great scheme of things, and how easy it is to get caught up in all sorts of stuff that really doesn't matter. So on one level, yes, this is a song for my children about the difficulties I face as a mother, trying hard - and sometimes failing - to answer all their questions that arise as they make their way in the world. But on another level, it's a song for all of us. The world is sometimes a very difficult place to live in, but it also has a beautiful simplicity: Watching the sun rise or set; seeing Autumn leaves change colour and fall; smelling the air after it's been raining or watching the snow fall. How often do we stop and take the time to appreciate all of these things? When I look up at the sky and see the moon, I'm always reminded of how tiny I am and of how vast the Universe is, and I really do wonder what the moon would say if it could talk. We are all so tiny but we have so much potential. Realising how small we are doesn't mean we should do nothing!

In your superb anti-national anthem “I Won’t Wear the Union Jack”, you have coined the phrase, “Most of the people have good things to say / But they’ve given up tryin’ to be heard”. Well, I have listened to so many people saying very silly things, that I must ask you if this optimistic assessment holds particularly for Wales, or Great Britain? Or otherwise, how can people be taught to find inside themselves those good things that they have to say? So that they need no longer utter bullshit?

I love this question, it made me laugh! You are absolutely right; lots of people do utter bullshit! What I was referring to when I wrote ‘I Won’t Wear The Union Jack’ was the basic kindness and desire to do right that I believe most people have inside them, even though it may be buried deeply. And then there’s the people who don’t need to look so far inside themselves and who are aware of what’s going on locally and around the world, but no longer bother to do or say much about it, either because they feel they won’t be heard or because of the general apathy that they have grown up with and are now immersed in. I hope this makes sense!

I think there is one point in your agenda where you cannot count on the consent of each and every anarchist. This is the point of vegetarianism and veganism, which you have already mentioned earlier in this interview. Many people (me included) believe that though it is necessary to fight cruelty against animals, that doesn’t mean you mustn’t eat any. Nevertheless, your vegetarian song, “Leonardo, Percy, Leo and Albert”, seems impressive to me. Then, in “The Vegan Police”, you make the excessive zeal of some vegans a subject of your irony. In what way is vegetarianism constitutive for your political thinking?

Animal rights’ is a funny subject, isn’t it? I will quite happily sing to any audience about human rights but when it comes to the rights’ of animals I will sometimes find myself feeling self conscious and worrying about whether the audience will think I’m preaching or coming across as smug. I shouldn’t worry about this, it’s ridiculous and I find myself wondering why I do.
If somebody was being racist, or taking part in the exploitation of human beings I would speak out immediately but for some reason, if I were with someone who was buying or eating meat I would respect their choice and say nothing, and yet the rights’ of animals is something I feel passionately about. I’m still trying to figure this out, to be honest.
I became a vegetarian at the age of 15, and now I am a vegan. I can’t see a big difference between human suffering and exploitation and animal suffering and exploitation. To eat meat and drink milk causes distress, pain and death. What right do I have to take the life of another being for meat, whatever the species, when I can live very healthily (in fact more healthily) without it? Killing just doesn’t make any sense to me.

I got your point. But don’t you also sing, “I Used to Want to Be the Cat”? I love those lyrics a lot! But as a cat, you would probably end up eating mice. Isn’t that part of nature, too?

Yes I do sing 'I Used To Want To Be The Cat' but at the time I wanted to be the cat I was only about eight years old and I probably didn't give much consideration to the cat's diet!
Of course killing is in a cat's nature, and many other animals' too. It's instinct. As human beings we are very lucky that we have the ability to use reason, foresight and empathy. We don't have to act on impulse; we have choice. I don't think it's in our instincts to kill and eat large farmyard animals. We can get all the protein we need from other sources, and besides, the environmental impact of farming so many animals across the land is huge.

This August, you played at the “Fest der leisen Töne” in a forest near the city of Kassel. What kind of experience is it to perform in Germany as a Welsh radical folk artist?

I’m not actually Welsh. I’m English but I have lived in Wales for 11 years and three of my children are Welsh.
I absolutely loved playing in Germany this summer. The country is beautiful and I found the people so friendly. It means a great deal to me to be asked to play my songs in another country and it is also very encouraging to hear audiences cheering on in support of the overtly political songs, such as ‘If the Death Penalty Were an Olympic Sport’ and ‘Letters To Mr Bush’. It reminds me that there are like –minded people, not just in my own country but all around the world. I get the same feeling with Myspace when people from all over the world make contact. I hope to play more in Europe in the future. In fact, I’ve been asked to play at the Fest Der Leisen Tone again next year which I’m really looking forward to.

Is a new album in sight? On the “Glastonwick 2008” internet site they’re saying that you have just signed a “big record deal”. What will it bring us, musically and poetically?

A new album will be released but at the moment I’m not sure exactly when. I have quite a few brand new songs that have yet to be recorded but I also have a new album that was recorded earlier this year and was produced by Boff and Neil from Chumbawamba and includes the best songs from my previous two albums. The reason we did this album was because, as you mentioned in your question, about a year ago I was going sign to a big record label. The label wanted to release my best songs on a new album which would then be released throughout Europe. As it turned out, the deal wasn’t really right for me. I don’t think I would’ve been happy with what was being asked of me. Unfortunately this means I still have a beautifully produced album waiting to be released but no record label. I’m not letting this worry me though; I’m sure the right label will come along and until then the most important thing to me is to continue writing songs and playing gigs.

Interview: Ruediger Haude

German translation of this interview back to the Homepage of Ruediger Haude